A Remarkable Fierce Journey Being Victorious During the AIDS Crisis with Philip Bahr

Brad Shreve [00:00:10]:
Welcome. Each week on Queer We Are, you’ll hear interviews with LGBTQ guests who are making a difference, staying optimistic, and sharing positive stories, and sometimes all of the above. It’s the podcast about good news and our community to keep you motivated and offer hope at a time. It’s a challenge to have either. Now, each month, I’m asked to share my story on a few shows. And compared to my life today, my past is not the stuff dreams are made of. And they believe their listeners will find my story inspiring. My guest inspires me in the same way. Philip is an easygoing guy, living what some would think is an easygoing life. But he has an important message. Philip survived the harrowing experiences of the 1980s and 90s, but he didn’t sit it out and accept what some considered the inevitable – an all too early death. And what makes his story so special is he didn’t survive. He thrived. You don’t want to miss his powerful story, and it’s coming right up. So now I’m your host, Brad Shreve, and my guest is philip Barr. And queer we are.

Brad Shreve [00:01:25]:
Philip, I heard your story, and as you know, I had to have you guests on this show. But first, you have a podcast, and that’s not why I have you on here. But I think it’s a cool show, and I even listed it as a recommendation on an episode a few weeks ago, which is why I want to bring it up first. So let’s start by telling the listener what it is.

Philip Bahr [00:01:46]:

Brad Shreve [00:01:47]:
Thank you.

Philip Bahr [00:01:48]:
Sure. So I have been doing a blog since 2009 called Real Charlie. It’s a television and film review blog. And recently, I decided, basically because of doing the work with you, I decided to venture into my own podcast. So what I do is I take one piece of work, it could be a film or a TV series, and I think about and talk about what happened, how I felt when I first saw the film, and then how I feel now. Has it stood the test of time? Does it still fit really well in this time period? And so it’s been a lot of fun, and I’ve had I think I’m up to episode eight. So I’ve had quite a few episodes, and it’s been lots of fun, and you’ve been a great help. So thank you.

Brad Shreve [00:02:35]:
So on Queer Writers of Crime, I interviewed authors, and Justene was with me every week giving book recommendations at the start of every show for over two years. And listeners loved her. Toward the end, I had to give her a break and rotated recommendations each week, which made us nervous. But Philip was part of that rotation, and people stayed happy. But listener, I must say, he did far better than I ever could. I read a book, and when I’m done, I remember whether I liked it or not. And that’s it. However, Philip was excellent at quoting from the pages, describe scenes and giving details, and that skill is reflected on Reel Charlie Speaks, and he takes you back in time to these movies and TV shows, and it’s a fun ride.

Philip Bahr [00:03:28]:
Well, first of all, I want to say it was just a wonderful experience. And as I mentioned earlier, it spawned me to go on and start my own podcast. But it grabbed something, actually grabbed something from my past. I mean, we’re talking about my life, and I had a degree in broadcasting from Penn State when my undergrad and I moved to Atlanta after college. And then I didn’t end up working in the industry. But what I did do is I ended up doing a gay radio show in the 80s, which was kind of crazy, in Atlanta, in the community radio station. So I did that for a couple of years and then left that, and then I didn’t do anything else with audio until recently, until the last couple of years. And so weaving your show, Queer Writers of Crime, with some other projects that I was doing, it seemed kind of logical for me to start my own podcast. I also do a library podcast at work. I’m a host of that as well, so I have a couple of irons in the fire.

Brad Shreve [00:04:34]:
Philip, as you know, I believe there are as many ways to describe success as there are people. And since most people have more than one goal or dream in life, there’s actually more than that. And our society needs to stop this assumption. When we say success, we’re referring to wealth or fate. So that being said, what do you believe makes you successful?

Philip Bahr [00:04:59]:
I consider myself successful because of the obstacles that I face in my life and how those obstacles and challenges, in particular the health crisis with HIV, being HIV positive for such a long time, how that has impacted my life, but also not just how that’s impacted my life, but how I’ve responded to that. I think it’s really important when anyone goes through any sort of crisis, whether it’s a health crisis, a personal health crisis, whether it’s someone else that they love, that they’re taking care of, or whether it’s a financial crisis or a spiritual crisis. Whatever it is, what’s most important about that moment is not what’s happening to you, but how you react to that and how you move forward. Because each of us have this one life, and we have to decide how are we going to face today and then how are we going to move forward? And is it going to be in a positive way where we are trying to make a better life for ourselves, or are we going to sort of wallow in a lot of negativity? And that’s not to say that it’s not black or white. Obviously, all of us go through I’ve gone through a lot of anxiety and depression in my life and very dark periods. But ultimately it’s about do you get up every morning and think about what I can possibly do today to make this day good for myself and also for the people around me too.

Brad Shreve [00:06:34]:
We’re going to talk about the AIDS crisis because you bring it up during conversations and quite frequently on Real Charlie Speaks. And in a way it was a big part of your life. Well, it was actually a big part of gay men’s lives during that era in general, but you fought against it both publicly and personally. And it’s hard for me to describe, I’d almost say it’s in a nostalgic way that doesn’t seem right because it makes it seem like you have fond memories, though I’m sure there are times you do. So let’s start when you left home. Where did you go? Where did your path take you then?

Philip Bahr [00:07:18]:
So I grew up in Pennsylvania actually.

Brad Shreve [00:07:21]:
Let me say something. A lot of people hate it when people say, what was your path? But I’ve yet to come up with a better word, so I will continue to use it. So go ahead. I didn’t mean to interrupt.

Philip Bahr [00:07:30]:
Sure. No, I grew up in Pennsylvania. I went to Penn State for my undergrad. And when I graduated, I got to tell you, this was my thinking back then, when I was in my early twenty s, I wanted to get really far away. And it wasn’t because I hated my parents, it wasn’t because I hated where I grew up. I just felt like there was something else out there that was waiting for me to discover. And so I had a couple of friends while I was in college that had moved to Atlanta and I had gone down to visit them and stay with them a couple of times. And it seemed like a fabulous city to go discover and to be queer in. So I packed a whole bunch of stuff and got into a moving van and my friend Pat drove down with me and I got down there and I ended up staying down there for six years. I had my very first career job. I had my very first long term relationship, one of the two significant relationships of my life. And yeah, it was great. It was just wonderful. And I met some friends that I still consider to be some of the closest people and the most interesting people I’ve ever met. So it was a great time to be in Atlanta, I feel like.

Brad Shreve [00:08:47]:
Did you come out before or after you moved?

Philip Bahr [00:08:49]:
I came out between my freshman and sophomore year in college. So I had gotten a summer job in Pittsburgh, which was about 10 hours away from where I lived. Pennsylvania is very wide and I was working in Pittsburgh and they ended up sending me to Tampa, Florida for a week, and then that week turned into six weeks. So I was down in Tampa, Florida, by myself, this little 19 year old Pennsylvania boy. I was in a hotel room with a rental car. I had dabbled in trying to come out earlier when I was in college the year before, and it was kind of disastrous. There was no harm done to me physically or emotionally, but the person that I tried to connect with was not good. And I got out of it, and I always got out of it in a safe way. And so I had made the dean’s list that spring semester, and I was in this summer job in a state far away from where everybody was that any sort of eyes on me, and I just decided to try to go to a bar. And so I went to a bar the first night. It was a disaster. I went to bar the second night. I met someone. I had my first adult gay sex, and then I met somebody else a couple of weeks later, and that was it. So by the time I was moving to Atlanta after college, I had been out for probably four years by that point.

Brad Shreve [00:10:21]:
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So, Philip, where were you when the bomb dropped in 1981?

Philip Bahr [00:10:50]:
I was in college. I was at Penn State. And here’s what I remember about that. And this is why I love my parents so much, and I’m sorry for.

Brad Shreve [00:10:59]:
Those unfamiliar with the dates, 1981 is the first year when the age crisis really hit, right?

Philip Bahr [00:11:07]:
So I was in college ignoring everything, because we were young. We were 19, 2021 years old. We were in the middle of Pennsylvania, far away from New York and San Francisco and Los Angeles, and it was my senior year in college. We were all out. There were four of us living together, four gay guys in a two bedroom apartment. We were living together. We were having a blast. It was my senior year, so it was 82. And my dad found you remember the infamous article that came out in the New York Times that said, like, something like, 41 homosexuals die of rare cancer or something? That was the very first article that ever came out somehow that was called.

Brad Shreve [00:11:55]:
The Gay cancer, right?

Philip Bahr [00:11:56]:
Gay cancer. That was reprinted in my hometown paper. And my dad cut that article out and sent it to me, and we all shared it. So that was the first moment that any sort of inkling I had that anything was wrong. And I don’t know what we did with it, but I do remember everybody reading it, and us talking about it.

Brad Shreve [00:12:18]:
You talked about your parents. You grew up in a Catholic household.

Philip Bahr [00:12:23]:
I did. I say this all the time when people ask me about growing up and also coming out and all of that. I was very fortunate because I did grow up in a Catholic household and we were very devout. My parents believed in going to church every Sunday. We weren’t somebody that would go to church just on holidays. I mean, we went to church every Sunday. My mom volunteered at the church. My dad counted money every Sunday. That was his sort of big contribution. My mom did a lot more over the years. We went to Catholic school, all four of us. I have three older sisters. We all went to Catholic school up to a certain point. I went all the way through 6th grade, and I was enamored by the Catholic Church. And my spirituality at that time was really wrapped up in the Catholic Church. I was an altar boy, I was a cantor, I was a lecter. And in the also started doing guitar Mass. So I was really completely entrenched in the Catholic Church. And it really wasn’t until I came out and then within a year after coming out, where I started really understanding the hypocrite. Let me back up for a minute. I actually started realizing the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church during the Vietnam War because my middle brother in law served over in Vietnam. And as a child, there’s a certain part during the Mass where you can say intentions for other people. And I would always say something like, please pray for our boys in Vietnam. And as I got older, I realized, okay, I was like the eight year old or the nine year old kid doing this. No other adult, including the priest, was talking about this. And it was a very odd. The Catholic Church came around to criticizing the war very late in the game. And that’s not to say that that’s not a good thing. Of course, it’s always a good thing. So there was that sort of chink in the armor. And then absolutely after I came out, I just realized that I can’t do this anymore and I have to find my own spiritual journey. And I do still know I have a lot of friends at work and people I know, have known over the years who still practice Catholicism and are trying to change things from within, which I think is a really good thing. But for me, I had to leave. There was no question about it.

Brad Shreve [00:14:52]:
Let’s go back to the article you mentioned your father gave you during the earliest days of the crisis. Is that when the fear started? Or was it too early and you’re just like 41 guys?

Philip Bahr [00:15:03]:
No, there was no fear at all. First of all, we were young and we just went through COVID. You know how a lot of young people are really fearless and don’t care. They don’t think about mortality. So that was us. There was no name for it. It was just like some vague gay cancer thing. It wasn’t even grid yet. It was much less HIV or AIDS. The virus hadn’t been discovered and there was very little reporting on it. And I think if I had been in greenwich village in new york city, or in the castro in san francisco, it would have been a whole different story. But I wasn’t. I was a college kid in pennsylvania, and so there was no fear. There was no fear. And when I first got down to atlanta, there also was no fear because there was this a lot of people haven’t talked about this, but there were periods of time where we thought people that weren’t in those epicenters thought, as long as I’m not there, I’m good, I’m safe. As long as I don’t sleep with anyone who’s from new york city or from as long as it’s crazy. But there were like, I don’t know how long it was, whether it was five months or a year or whatever, but there was this time period where so when I first got to atlanta, everything was normal, nobody cared. And it wasn’t until people in atlanta started getting sick, which was a little bit after when everything started hitting bad in new york city and san francisco.

Brad Shreve [00:16:36]:
And you mentioned GRID because first it was called the gay cancer and later became AIDS as we know, which is acquired immune deficiency syndrome. But in the middle it was GRID. And what did GRID stand for?

Philip Bahr [00:16:49]:
Grid stood for gay related immune deficiency, which was very shortly after the gay cancer happened in 81, doctors started identifying it as that because it was only being seen in gay men in these urban areas.

Brad Shreve [00:17:07]:
Yeah, it was still just considered a gay disease. Exactly when did it really strike home and when did you decide to start doing something about it?

Philip Bahr [00:17:16]:
Those are very good questions. So I think it really struck home for me. I ended up getting a job as a corporate trainer. At first I wasn’t a corporate trainer, but I got a job in a big corporation in atlanta. And my first AIDS death was somebody that I worked with got sick and died very quickly as everybody did back then. It was 100% fatal and everybody died very fast. And I wanted to do some sort of a memorial at work, like a gathering. And the people that were the administration absolutely refused to do it because they were horrified. They didn’t want the word AIDS connected to the organization, the corporation. And so that was sort of simultaneously, that was my first sort of, wow, this is really happening here. And then secondly, it was my first realization that, oh, people are not going to support this, they’re going to be prejudiced against it. And they were. I’ve often said that I feel very lucky because I came out of the closet and I didn’t ever think to myself, oh, maybe I’m bisexual, maybe I’m fluid, or I’m really scared, so I should meet somebody and get married. I don’t know what it was. It was something about me being a kinsey six, which means I’m like 100% homosexual. I have no idea what it was, but I was able to say, this is who I am. This is my life. Take it or leave it. Love me or not love me. I just don’t really care. So I was very open about being gay to everybody. I mean, I was out at work, which was kind of a little crazy. I was out with my family. I will tell you that the moment AIDS really started being real, I’m sure that my parents were just waiting for the phone call for me to tell them that I was HIV positive. And again, living in Atlanta, we were in a bit of a bubble for a long period of time, and then I sort of lived in the gay ghetto. Midtown was kind of the gay ghetto, and all my friends, we would go to restaurants that had a lot of gay people going to them, and bars and clubs or have parties where there’d be just a lot of mixture of people, but primarily queer people. I guess if you were talking about the words.

Brad Shreve [00:19:52]:
Now, you are no longer Catholic, but you do consider yourself spiritual. Was it during this time period that began?

Philip Bahr [00:20:01]:
No. It was before I knew I was HIV positive. So I’m so glad you asked that question. So when I got to Atlanta, it was 1983. When I got to Atlanta, I don’t know how, but I immediately started looking for alternatives. I went to Church of Religious Science and a couple of other churches to try to see if I could connect to an organized religion that was more welcoming for LGBT people. I didn’t connect with those, but they were all really good alternatives, and I just didn’t for whatever reason, I didn’t connect with them. But what I did do was I did start doing a lot of reading, and so there was a spiritual bookstore in Atlanta that I would go to and would buy books. So the New Age movement was really burgeoning back then, and that’s what I connected to. And then my very first long term relationship, his parents were really involved in New Age thought, so they became sort of my spiritual mentors. And then also two remember I mentioned there were four of us in my senior year in college living together. Three of the four of us really got into New Age philosophy and spiritual development. And so we all sort of traded books and talked about wrote letters to each other, talked on the phone, visited each other. That became hugely important to me during this period of time, just for obvious reasons because it was a way for me to center myself as AIDS was starting to become a bigger and bigger part of our world, that we could no longer ignore being in a secondary city. And it was also a great way for me to create a basis of my spiritual belief system, which I had to reinvent after leaving the Catholic Church. So all of that was really, really important to me.

Brad Shreve [00:21:54]:
Did that help you get through the crisis?

Philip Bahr [00:21:56]:
Oh, 100%. 100%, yeah. Because like I said, I embraced all of this in 83. I didn’t test until January of 88. It’s hard for me to even express how important that was to me. It was just a part of my life. It was something I always sought out, no matter where I was, no matter who I was with. And I needed to be around like minded people that either were okay with that or really embraced that as well.

Brad Shreve [00:22:23]:
When you were tested it, were you referring to when you found out you were HIV positive?

Philip Bahr [00:22:27]:

Brad Shreve [00:22:28]:
And what year was that?

Philip Bahr [00:22:30]:
January of 1988.

Brad Shreve [00:22:31]:
1994 was the year that we had the highest AIDS related deaths in the United States. You had already been diagnosed for six years, and that was the time period that you were diagnosed. That was when people were still dying. Very quickly.

Philip Bahr [00:22:46]:
Oh, very quickly.

Brad Shreve [00:22:47]:
When did it dawn on you that like, why am I around longer than most people?

Philip Bahr [00:22:51]:
You know, I had a moment. So I was in Atlanta until 80, 89. So I tested positive in 88. I left Atlanta in 89. I was on my way to moving to New York City, but I needed to sort of clear up some financial things. And so I actually took a transfer of my job to a small suburb outside of Philadelphia, and I lived there for a year and a half. And that was the first place that I took any sort of AIDS medication. I got onto act. It was the first AIDS medication. Let’s just say that there were problems with it, but they were on the right track to trying to find something to really help people with AIDS. So I took my first AZT in New Jersey outside of Philadelphia, and then I also went to my first support group during that time. Very first support HIV support group. And there was about I don’t know exactly, but let’s say there was eight to ten people in the support group. There were two facilitators. I remember that. And there was a meeting where we had to go around the circle, and each of us had to imagine what we would be like as an old person. And literally every person there said, I’m going to be dead. Oh, why would I worry about that? I’m going to die. And it got to me, and I, without even hesitating just spilled out this whole story of me being 80 years old. And having my nieces and nephews, having children, and being sort of the sage for the family and connecting with all these people and having all these long term friendships with other queer people. And I have no idea where that came from, but it just poured out of me. I wasn’t trying to be better than them. I just literally could always imagine myself as an old person. And then as the years went by, I used to say to people, because I have family members, especially my sisters, who just say, you were so incredible. There were moments that I was incredible, but we’re all human. And there were lots of times where I ate ice cream when I shouldn’t have, and there were times when I did other things I shouldn’t have, and there were times that I was wallowing in my depression too much and not getting help with that. But then there were a lot of other moments where I was really angry or not maybe not angry. Why? I was angry a lot, but also just aggressive about getting the right treatment. I mean, I’ve got to tell you, when I moved to New York, I moved to New York because I thought I wanted to be a writer, and I did some writing projects and never made any money off of them. But really what I did was I moved to New York. That allowed me to survive because I was with one of the best AIDS doctors in the country. And so all everything, as soon as it would come out, he would be like, we got to try this, we got to try that. And it was phenomenal.

Brad Shreve [00:25:49]:
Well, I’m guessing in addition to your spiritual belief, part of what got you through it as well was you were an activist. I know you were involved with that Act Up. You’ve told me that. But I also believe you were with some other organizations. Did getting into that, was that part.

Philip Bahr [00:26:03]:
That helped you get through that period 100%? I mean, I tell people now when they talk about how whatever situation somebody’s in in life, how frustrated they are and how isolated they feel and how I say, you’ve got to get out of your own headspace. None of us can stay in our own headspace. We have to get out. And everybody has something to share. Everybody has important things to share with the world. Whether it’s with one person or whether it’s with 10 million people. It doesn’t matter. It’s all the same. And healing your own personal healing, a lot of that has to do with what you give back to other people. I like to call myself a foot soldier in Act Up. I did a lot of demos once I got to New York City, and I was never a leader or anything like that, but I was always somebody who showed up for demonstrations. There’s a 15 2nd clip of me in the documentary how to Survive a Plague in Kenny Bunkport at first George Bush’s summer home during a demonstration. And so it was really important to me. But the other thing that I did was there was an organization called Body Positive, and there were support groups for people with HIV, and there were also HIV negative support groups because and I always like to talk about my HIV negative friends and how devastating that whole crisis was for them on a completely different level. So Body Positive, it was peer led groups. So I led a group of HIV positive guys. Then there were other guys that were doing the same thing for HIV negative guys. And it was a great time period. It was a great time period to be alive. It was just we really felt like there were some drugs that were coming along. Things obviously weren’t working yet. As you mentioned, 94 was the worst year for death. But there was I have to say that during the 90s, there was between the activism, between Clinton getting into office, like, as bad as everything happened with Clinton and the LGBT community, I feel like there was moments of hope with that. So that really helped me through that.

Brad Shreve [00:28:19]:
So I know you were on disability for a while, and I don’t know what exactly your situation was, but you were on disability and then you went back to work and eventually became a librarian. How did it feel to finally be able to work again? And how did you become a librarian after a broadcasting early broadcasting career?

Philip Bahr [00:28:39]:
Well, two things. I just remember these two things. So when I was a little kid, I was always the kid I talk about having older sisters, and I was always the kid that people would call and say, how do we find out who killed so and so some politician or something. And we’d have stack of Life magazines upstairs in the attic, and I’d run upstairs and grab a copy and find it. And it was always like sort of my job when I was younger to sort of find information. And then one of the things that I did between when I left New York City in 2000 and was trying to figure out how to get my life back and go back to work full time was one of my dear friends. Barbara Saltman hired me for a job at a video store clerk job at this amazing video store in the Hudson Valley in New York. In New York.

Brad Shreve [00:29:50]
What’s a video store?

Philip Bahr [00:30:20]
No, seriously. And what that job did for me was it gave me a sense of purpose. And also it showed me that I could show up, that I wasn’t going to get sick, that I was going to remain healthy and I could show up for my shifts. One of the things that HIV and also not working did for me was it really shattered my sense of self. Worth. And so I was able to build that back up. And then people started saying to me things like, you’re so good at researching films, because I would find these films for people, and somebody would come in and say, there’s this director, they live in New Zealand. And I would be like, blah, blah, blah. And so one day, this guy said to me, you really are like a video librarian. And I said, really? And then it sort of I don’t know, something sort of clicked in me. And then somehow I just thought to myself, I’ve got to reinvent myself if I want to get back to work full time, and how am I going to do that? And so I thought, I’ve got to go back to grad school. And I researched librarianship, and I thought, God, this would be a phenomenal fit for me. And so I just did it. And I was supported by so many people during this journey, and it was just great. So I went back to school, to Syracuse for two years, and then I got out, and I got my first job at Fairfield University in Fairfield, Connecticut. And then I’ve only had two library jobs since I’ve been working. I’ve been working for almost 15 years, full time, and now I’m at Fairfield Public Library in the same town in Fairfield, Connecticut. But one of the things that happened to reconnect this back to my HIV experience is that my long term partner in Atlanta, Joe Greenwood, who we broke up about a year before I left Atlanta, the medications, even the new stuff just wouldn’t really work for him. He constantly was having to try new things. He was having all sorts of issues. So I started back to work full time in 2008, and a month after I started working full time, he died. So it was like this absolute moment for me of, like, I am moving forward, and he is leaving his life. And it was so profound. It just showed me that I have to keep moving forward and I have to make my life the best that I can and help other people and take care of people and just try to do as much good as I can. So I love being a librarian. It’s been the best thing that I’ve ever done. This year, I’m actually back to work longer than I was on disability, so that’s like a phenomenal sort of milestone for me, and it’s just been great.

Brad Shreve [00:32:24]:
The reason, Philip, it was important for me to have you on this show is not because you survived the AIDS crisis, but because of the way you survived the AIDS crisis. And today you are a huge success.

Philip Bahr [00:32:39]:
Thank you.

Brad Shreve [00:32:42]:
So one of my usual questions as a person that made it and feels at peace where you are, what advice can you give somebody out there that’s not doing so well?

Philip Bahr [00:32:54]:
I think my number one advice is to figure out a way to get out of your own head and to get out of your own way and connect with people who might be able to help you move forward. None of us do this on our own. And it’s scary. It’s so scary, especially when you’re in a space where you’re either full of anxiety or you’re dealing with depression or you’re stuck because it’s been so long since anything’s gone right in your life. It’s so scary to get out, to go out of your house physically and talk to somebody and share things, but that’s the only way to move forward. Nobody does this on their own. So, I mean, that literally would be my number one advice, would be to find and also to not feel frustrated, because that first person you meet may not be the right person for you to connect with. The second person you meet may not be the right person for you to connect with, but if you keep moving forward, the third one’s going to be the one that’s really going to help you, or the fourth one. But just do not give up. Just keep pushing yourself to get out there. It’s so easy in our world, as you know, Brad, from everything that you’ve been through, it’s so easy to stay in your own head, and not especially with the Internet and with social media. It’s so easy just to say, oh, I have this really great life. La la la la. And it’s like, yeah, that’s great. Except that if you’re really stuck, the worst thing that you can do is physically stay by yourself. I don’t care how great Twitter is or Instagram. They can be really great tools, and they can be really wonderful ways. You wouldn’t have the podcast you had if it weren’t for the Internet and for all the connections that you can make through the Internet. But we all have to get out. We have to have personal in person physical relationships and experiences with other people, and that’s what sort of helps humans propel forward.

Brad Shreve [00:34:53]:
You reminded me of a saying that they say in AA, and it sounds kind of cheesy, but there’s a lot of truth to it because you were talking about just keep going to another person until you find the help that you need. “Don’t stop before the miracle happens.”

Philip Bahr [00:35:05]:
Exactly. So good, so perfectly stated.

Brad Shreve [00:35:10]:
Well, I’m really glad you’re still around. I’m really glad you enjoyed life the way you do. It really reflects folks, listen to his podcast, and you can really tell. Again, it’s Reel. Charlie Speaks. I’ll have a link to both the podcast and to his blog. He’s a lot more active on the blog. The podcast currently once a month, but we’ll see. We’ll see.

Philip Bahr [00:35:30]:
Brad wants it to be more.

Brad Shreve [00:35:32]:
By the time this airs. It may be more than that. I don’t know. I didn’t want to speak on Philip’s behalf. Thank you for being my guest.

Philip Bahr [00:35:39]:
Thanks, Brad. This has been really wonderful. Thank you so much.

Brad Shreve [00:35:45]:
Do you enjoy this show? If so, tell a friend. Because the number one way podcasts grow is word of mouth. So pass it on so others can enjoy Queer We Are.

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